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Would you prefer to see existing community and cultural facilities upgraded or new facilities constructed?
To provide the community with an idea of what might be possible in terms of community and cultural facilities improvement in Springwood, Ecodesign Architects have developed two options for upgrade. Fundamentally, option A involves upgrade of existing facilities on the Civic Centre/Library site while option B proposes the construction of new facilities on the Council owned carpark south of the Town Square. Alternatively, a combination of both options may be considered as a plausible way forward.
Comment 1 3 May 2010, 2:45 PM
I do not want either of the options presented in the information booklet. Maintain the buildings we already have and make improvements like the installation of tiered seating and air-conditioning. While there are no monies available for basics, the Council should spend very conservatively on non-essential things.
Comment 1.1 3 May 2010, 5:03 PM
The Civic Centre precinct should be preserved (with retro unpgrade) as this is a heritage precinct. The CC is a fully functioning multi purpose building............new options do not take that into consideration. It is a community facility for the entire community not just one sector. Furthermore,this project has the capacity to bankrupt an already cash-strapped council who can ill afford to take on another large project. Whatever happened to the performance space in the cultural centre?
Comment 1.2 8 May 2010, 3:28 PM
I also do not agree with either of the options. Council have cleverly not given a third option. Are Council going to have an open forum to allow people to speak out seeing as we now have 'an artists impression' of the rebuilding of our town. How true are artists impressions - there are apparently 3 interested parties in building a supermarket yet we only have options A and B. Be open Council and let Springwood folk have a further meeting. Not everyone has access to computers or are able to go to the Library and put pen to paper. Let peoples voices be heard so you can stand there and reply rather than sitting behind desks reading responses and still doing what you see 'Springwood residents deserve".
Comment 2 3 May 2010, 9:01 PM
New facilities constructed (Option B) after the existing upgrade (Option A) is complete...we need it all....it is 2010, not 1960. Build for the future, so we can stengthen our community not preserve antiquated ugly spaces that do not serve the community needs.
Braemar is beautiful and very Springwood, so I like that it is part of the upgrade of existing facilities plan....I also loved reading the brochure sent in the mail.
Comment 2.1 4 May 2010, 11:44 AM
Do you like the rate increase and the money already wasted on the STP? And the only way council can afford what 1234 wants is to sell public assets to the likes of Woolworths or Coles who are two of the proponents waiting in the wings to get the okay.
Comment 3 4 May 2010, 5:04 PM
Neither of these expensive options is vaguely acceptable. I hate to think how much rate-payers' money has been wasted on this new exercise of having these detailed plans drawn up, producing glossy brochures and then the mail-out to residents. We can add to that the cost of all the studies that have been done to date. After several years of this sort of spending and all the collected evidence suggesting a modest upgrade of existing facilities is what the community wants, all we have now is yet another attempt to foist a public/private partnership on us disguised in these two over-the-top options. The cost of all of these attempts to make a very undemocratic process look democratic could have upgraded our civic centre and improved library facilities - ie we would have had the material upgrades, but all we have are studies.
Comment 3.1 6 May 2010, 12:34 PM
I agree with JanO, to much money wasted on plans,brochures, surveys,etc. The council has very little money for maintainance, let alone new projects and we don't want another big supermarket.
Upgrade the present facilities and it will serve the commmunity well.
Comment 4 5 May 2010, 8:46 AM
I agree Springwood facilities need updating and would like to see Option B implemented. Why shouldn't we have first class and up to date amenities. The ones we have are old and outdated. We need to look to the future and provide facilities for a growing community.
Comment 4.1 5 May 2010, 9:37 PM
As per the majority of people, I did not want to lose the Southern views and village feel of Springwood however I was actually quite surprised how good Option "B" is. Well done.
Comment 4.2 29 May 2010, 12:40 PM
These plans look like the railway workshops around Redfern.
We can have what you want with upgrades to our current Civic Center without selling our souls to the Big business world..Loosing our Public Land and oh what a view we would have with option B a tunnel vision so low down you will be looking at the base of the trees across the road . Great..... NOT WHAT I WANT FOR SPRINGWOOD
Comment 5 5 May 2010, 11:04 AM
Option B is cramped and crowded and does not give the Neighbourhood Centre as much space as Option A. Option B takes away the vista we enjoy to the National Park and also takes away the space used by the Ivy Market. Option B also opens up the loss of the Civic Centre precinct to Woolworths or Coles for a supermarket complex which will in turn ruin Springwood.
The population in this area is not expanding at a great rate it is aging therefore we require perhaps a scaled down version of Option A. Council are too concerned with meeting everyone's wish lists at a time when they are asking us to agree to increased rates.
Comment 5.1 6 May 2010, 1:05 PM
Neither Option A or B in any way beautifies Springwood, just turns us into another Penrith, Blacktown, P'matta.
Why do people move up here if that is what they want. If people choose Option B, then this leaves the area of the demolished Civic Centre and Library open for an ENORMOUS Supermarket complex which on the pamphlet Council has cleverly, in small print, noted as possible development, retail/supermarket. Why don't plainly state Coles, Woolworths development?
Comment 6 7 May 2010, 10:02 PM
Definitely do NOT want to see Option B as it opens up for a big group supermarket. The problem with this in the longer term is LOSS OF RETURN OF MONIES TO THE LOCAL COMMUNITY. Local business supports local employment AND AS WELL it supports putting that money back into the LOCAL community. Woolworths and Coles profits go to shareholders who live where...in Hong Kong or Rose Bay? Aside from that, how many shops are still vacant in Winmalee? And the rent that Coles charges PHEW! Also, the winmalee coles now attracts a massive increase in car traffic compared to more…
Comment 6.1 8 May 2010, 7:36 AM
Flashpants - How much rent does Coles charge? How do shop vacancies in Springwood compare those in Winmalee. Some real data please.
Comment 6.1.1 9 May 2010, 8:04 PM
Anyone else interested in commercial rents in Springwood might like to consider the following which is part of a report listed on the BMCC website as "Stage 1 - Re: Springwood Town Centre Economic Advice - Stage 1"
Recent commercial/retail leases in Springwood include:
148 Macquarie Rd (commercial) 220sqm - $382/sqm
6/107 Macquarie Road (retail) 58sqm - $423/sqm
1/153-157 Macquarie Rd (retail) 77sqm - $571/sqm
5c/127 Macquarie Rd Arcade 53.6sqm - $396/sqm
Shop 1, 119 Macquarie Rd (commercial above ground) 58sqm - $724/sqm
Source: Local Real Estate Agents – Springwood Town Centre 2007
• Commercial/retail properties in springwood are expensive when compared to the other centres on the more…
Comment 6.1.1.1 9 May 2010, 11:03 PM
Could you tell me how many shop vacancies in the main street?
Comment 6.1.1.1.1 10 May 2010, 8:03 AM
Sorry, I don't have any information about vacancies which is why I posed the question to Flashpants. Perhaps someone from SOS would have this information and could let us both know.
Comment 6.1.1.2 26 May 2010, 8:30 AM
This all commenced because Woolworths had the rug pulled out from under them by Coles with the purchase of Winmalee. BMCC changed their planning regulations to accommodate the complex at Winmalee because they recognised there was no suitable space in Springwood to accommodate such a development. Woolworth's plans were before council when Coles bought the complex so Woolworths sought to build in Springwood. The only space available is that owned by THE COMMUNITY! I stress community as opposed to BMCC who appear to think they are above the community not servants of. The rent in retail complexes are controlled by the anchor store and you will find that the tills of the other businesses are linked to whomever the anchor is. Some accountants in Springwood are of the opinion that a retail complex in the town will cause rents to rise to match what the complex charges.
Comment 7 12 May 2010, 7:25 PM
I could not possibly go with option B after looking at Council's extremely poor performance in the fiasco that was to be the new Springwood pool. Much better to stick with upgrading existing buildings. However the sad fact, as others have noted is that Council seems hell bent on having another large supermarket chain set up in Springwood whether we want it or not.
As for the library, all the refurbishing in the world is not much help unless the librarians have sufficient funds to purchase books and materials. The idea of this new space with the large atrium flooded with natural light is a perfect example of wasted space. People don't go to a library to enjoy natural light but to use the facilities, electronic and hard copy. Floor space is critical. This plan sacrifices floor space for building design features.
Comment 8 13 May 2010, 7:31 AM
One of the "community facilities" that I appreciate the most in Springwood is the Art School Square, marked "town square" on the option B plans.
This is a great spot to stop and take a rest with kids, eat an icecream, meet people etc. Importantly it fronts on the street so you really feel part of the action.
Can we expand and improve this area into a more of a town plaza? Having traveled through Spain and South America plazas are the focal point of each town (no matter how small) and day to day community interaction.
Instead of making it a thoroughfare to rarely used concrete "civic square" in option B, we could have improved plantings (possibly even lawn), public seating and modify the retail beside the chemist/westpac to encourage cafes.
just a thought.....
Comment 9 16 May 2010, 3:02 PM
I'm not sure how these comments are ultimately utilised in making any decisions but regardless, I offer the following.
One, if there is to be a new major supermarket and associated specialty shops then that development should occur in the middle of town, ie. the N or S carpark sites. Such a development on the edge of town, as per option A, creates too much potential harm to the activity of the main street.
Two, I don't think Springwood's biggest problem is a lack of community facilities,I can't see any deficiency which can't be overcome with gradual refurbishment of the existing civic centre. The problem is that the town's commercial architecture is unattractive and difficult to access. Given that the existing commercial landlords won't contibute anything to improve the place and are not offering any thoughts on the topic, I'm happy to see a major retailer which is prepared to generate ideas and spend money on the town become part of the business mix.
Comment 10 22 May 2010, 3:43 PM
Why are we even talking about this still, the community has spoken. No to developments that allows big companies to come to town. Has anyone been to Winmalee recently? its like going to Penrith, there is no community feeling what so ever.
Our council needs to stop putting so much stress on the community. constantly opening up the avenues for woolies, coles, Dan Murphy's ect to ruin our towns. People have better things to do like opening up more Co-ops and the like, other than always fighting their council to stop such developments. No to this development and any other such development in the future.
Comment 10.1 24 May 2010, 10:40 AM
I haven't noticed a lack of community spirit out Winmalee way. A sense of community means different things to different people, and is not defined by the sort of shops they use.
Comment 10.1.1 26 May 2010, 1:27 PM
I did not mean to offend anyone, i am just comparing the new shopping center to the old one. I thought back in the days of the court yard etc had more community interaction. My opinion only. I like Winmalee, just not the plaza.
Comment 11 23 May 2010, 9:59 AM
To me this looks like a three card trick.
Choose Option A and you get a Supermarket on the Southern Car Park, Multi-Story Parking on the Northern Car Park with units on top.
Choose Option B and you get inadequate cramped New Facilities on the Sothern Car Park, Multi-Story Parking with Units on the Northern Car Park and a Supermarket on the Civic Centre Site.
Don’t Choose Option A or B and you get a Supermarket on the Southern Car Park, Multi-Story Parking on the Northern Car Park with units on top as the council is very short of money.
Comment 12 23 May 2010, 10:56 AM
The first thing to say is that Option B does not look to be viable. In the documents on the council website it states that the minimum area that is acceptable to the councillors for the library is 1850m2. Option B does not meet this requirement.
The second priority is a new purpose built performance centre with seating for up to 600. Both Option A and Option B do not meet this requirement.
As highlighted in the information package there is little or no room for expansion (except upward) in Option B.
Option B reduces the community facilities. The information pack states “Reduced flat floor venue for Ivy Markets, balls dances, etc”.
There are so many problems with Option B that it is not seriously viable. Yes, we get new facilities but according to the information package it does not even replace what we have got now.
Comment 12.1 24 May 2010, 10:23 AM
BTW - The figures shown in the table on page 3 of "Proposed Special Variation to Rates 2010/2011 Facts Sheet 2" are correct. The amounts shown in the shaded cells are the sums of the amounts shown in the unshaded cells directly below.
Comment 12.1.1 25 May 2010, 9:36 AM
The Fact Sheet is now correct but my comments where made when the published fact sheet was incorrect. The figures for Council Commercial Buildings 1,710,408,318 and Council Operational Buildings 3,420,816,636 and the total percentage was shown as 199.96.
The time and date on the document I downloaded was 9/4/2010 12:06:50 PM and the current document is 9/4/2010 11:09:54 AM.
Someone at council may be able to explain why a document with a time an hour later was uploaded with errors but that was the published document on the website.
Comment 12.1.1.1 26 May 2010, 4:39 PM
Just saw your reply and checked that table again and this time I got the version that you downloaded originally. There seems to be something wrong with the BMCC website. I wonder which information we can trust.
Comment 13 28 May 2010, 1:00 PM
The Council recently commissioned Argyle Research to produce the Springwood Cultural and Community Facilities and Services – Needs Analysis. This report is a comprehensive review of the cultural and community facilities in Springwood, particularly from the perspective of recommendations for enhancement. The author of the report consulted with eighteen community organisations and twelve representatives of the different departments or agencies associated with the Blue Mountains City Council. The report is available to be read on the Blue Mountains Council website. The report states:-
“....stakeholders were strongly of the view that all major cultural and community services should be located on one more…
Comment 14 28 May 2010, 11:07 PM
THE COUNCIL'S OWN NEEDS AND ANALYSIS REPORT STATES THAT THE PRESENT FACILITIES ARE STRUCTURALLY SOUND, SO WHY THIS MANIC DRIVE TO MEGA DEVELOPMENT?
THE FACILITIES CAN BE BROUGHT UP TO STANDARD IF NEEDED BY GOVERNMENT GRANTS.
HOW SERIOUSLY HAS THIS COUNCIL SOUGHT GRANTS
FOR THE WARD THREE AREA AND WHAT IS ITS RECORD IN SECURING SUCH GRANTS?
COUNCILOR MYLES SUGGESTS IN THE GAZETTE THAT WE CAN HAVE IT ALL IF WE GO WITH OPTIONS A OR B.
THERE IS ALWAYS A COST.KATOOMBA CULTURAL CENTRE HAS REQUIRED A $6.5 MILLION COUNCIL INPUT ALTHOUGH IT IS A COMMERCIAL RELATIONSHIP .
IT IS A SAD REFLECTION THIS more…
Comment 15 10 Aug 2011, 1:18 PM
In relationship to Braemar Gallery. Part of an important era showing Springwood's growth. The house is still original - people are constantly coming in to look and delight in the interior as it now stands.
Braemar Gallery would be best served by staying there and having the extra rooms. It is a well known gallery with Sydney people coming up to visit and view the exhibitions. Galleries are special places and they allow people to show their expressions through their art works. Art Works cannot be displayed in an open cold lifeless area.
If it was moved into an open forum more…
